GEDU's unique approach to education with Professor Ray Lloyd, Group Deputy CEO
In this episode of the Leading with Purpose podcast, Rt Hon Justine Greening speaks with Professor Ray Lloyd, Group Deputy CEO of GEDU, about the institution's mission to support mature students in higher education. They discuss GEDU's unique approach to education, which includes flexible learning options, dedicated student support, and a focus on career progression. Ray shares insights from his own journey in education and emphasizes the importance of understanding the barriers faced by non-traditional students. The conversation highlights the impact of GEDU on both individual lives and the broader economy, as well as the need for policy changes to better support these students.
Transcript:
Rt Hon Justine Greening (00:01.324)
Welcome to the Leading with Purpose podcast. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Professor Ray Lloyd. He's group deputy CEO of GEDU. It's a education institution actually that is educating a lot of students, mature students in a number of sectors that the economy needs and many of them people who never would have had the chance to be able to study at that higher level of education. It's going to be a brilliant discussion with Ray. I'm really looking forward to.
hearing a lot more about what GEDU does, very pleased that they're part of the Purpose Coalition. But Ray, welcome to the Leading with Purpose podcast. Tell us a little bit about what GEDU does, where it is, it's got an international footprint. I think it's probably gonna be an education institute. A lot of people haven't really heard of, so give us a picture of almost what you do and who your students tend to be.
Ray (00:55.143)
Hi, thanks, Justine. Really, really pleased to be here today. I think, really exciting opportunity. Yeah. So, GEDU is a global organization that has a number of different educational institutions within it.
And I think we'll focus mainly today on its UK operations and GBS, but I'll give you a broader flavour. We have a performing arts institute in Brisbane in Australia. We've got two business schools in France. We operate a number of campuses, one in Berlin, one in Dubai, one in Malta for UK universities. We have an international university called Schiller where students can study in four different countries for the same degree.
So we have a range of different businesses, but in the UK we have, I suppose, three things that are really interesting in terms of the work of the Purpose Coalition. So GBS UK is an organisation that works in partnership with five UK universities to offer degree level study to students who wouldn't normally have that opportunity. And I'll come back to those, but there's about 38,000 students currently studying with GBS UK. We also have an apprenticeships business which looks at helping younger people into
Rt Hon Justine Greening (02:01.038)
Mm-hmm.
Ray (02:06.659)
jobs through apprenticeships and we have a small organisation as part of the group called MLA which works with people working in the maritime industry and helps them study while they're away at sea and help them get the qualifications to move on in their career. So I'll come back to GBS UK which I think is probably the best example of what we do and why we do it. So we have campuses in East London, West London, Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester.
and we have students studying a range of degree programs but mainly in the areas of business and healthcare. think we are currently, I saw some statistics recently that said 65 % of all students in the UK studying degrees in the built environment are studying with GBS UK. We've got a very large construction management program. We work mainly with mature students so the median age of our students is 37.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (02:53.038)
Amazing.
Ray (03:03.065)
And our students are almost exclusively from IMD1 and two areas. In the latest OFS data, the improvement in the proportion of IMD1 students in higher education, GBS is responsible for 65 % of that improvement.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (03:20.034)
Wow. So these are students from areas that have multiple deprivation and yet they are able to, through you, get into that higher education pathway, basically.
Ray (03:34.797)
Yeah, we offer them something that most of the mainstream universities for various reasons can't offer them. And what we mainly offer them is a patterns of delivery and support that meet their needs. We focus very much on what those students need, other universities have to focus on a whole range of things. We try to be really clear about what our purpose is, which is to support those students through education.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (03:41.123)
Mm-hmm.
Ray (04:02.484)
So for an example, if a student comes to us, they will generally study for two days a week. But that two days that they start with in their first year, they will stay with that timetable for four years. It will never change. And that means they can talk to their boss, sort out their work shifts, maybe talk to parents or other who can help with childcare, but they can organise their lives around something. Whereas in most universities, timetables change every term and this just doesn't work.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (04:07.982)
Mm-hmm.
Ray (04:32.088)
for students. We also have a huge, about 15 % of all of our staff are dedicated to helping keep the students on track. So if a student's absent from class, by 11 o'clock in the morning, they'll get a phone call that says, you're not in today, can we help? What's the problem? Because most of our students have got children or jobs or whatever it is. They've got lots of things going on in their life. So we do our best to keep them focused on education when other things get in the way of that. So yeah, we work very hard to
Rt Hon Justine Greening (04:51.916)
Yeah.
Ray (05:02.124)
to work with those students. And they're quite difficult to work with in that sense, but they're incredibly rewarding to work with at the other end of that. They come with a purpose, and we do our very best to help them achieve that purpose.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (05:13.838)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (05:17.752)
And it sounds like for your staff, actually a significant proportion of their time is firstly, tailoring education to individual students needs and the fact that you've got a pretty diverse student body, but diverse in the sense of they've got...
life pressures, you know, these are people who are well into their adult lives, you know, they've got family pressures, caring pressures, job pressures. And it sounds like the staff really thrive on supporting those people to make sure they can continue on their education. Do you find that the student body itself actually supports one another? And part of this is the fact because you know that you're not the only one in the situation, you can kind of
Ray (05:54.346)
Yes.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (06:00.234)
see how other people are coping and actually do it as a whole cohort.
Ray (06:04.979)
Absolutely. that is one of the unexpected side effects that we hadn't really thought through, but we're really pleased it's there of how we deliver. So we deliver to these students in, as I said, the timetable doesn't change, but their group doesn't change. So they start with 30 or 40 colleagues and they finish with the same group. So over that four years, they've been through all sorts of trials and tribulations.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (06:23.266)
Mm-hmm.
one.
Ray (06:28.363)
You know, they all have a WhatsApp group that flies around with every time there's an assignment and can we do this, can we do that. Quite often I was saying today, you know, each group will have a student rep and they go way above what you might expect them to do. You know, they worry about their whole class, they sort problems out. You know, it's fantastic to see the sort of learning communities they have. But equally, you you mentioned the staff and I have to say that that is, you know, I was...
Rt Hon Justine Greening (06:32.024)
Thank
Ray (06:56.343)
Chief Executive of GBS for four years and I felt genuinely blessed that I had such a committed group of people because this is, you it's not easy work that my colleagues have chosen to take on but it's something people do with a passion and I think you need that because otherwise it's not something for you. You know, our staff work really hard to deliver for these students so I've always been extraordinarily grateful for that.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (07:20.91)
Tell us a little bit about in the sense that flexibility that you're giving students whether it's in the evenings weekends in practice compared to maybe the kind of university that People listening to this or watching will know for themselves. How would it feel different if you're a student?
Ray (07:42.007)
So we're open nine to nine every day, nine to six on Sundays, I think. And students are allocated to a pattern based on their choice of a daytime pattern or an evening weekend pattern. And about 50 % of our students are evening and weekend, about 50 % are daytime. They will come in either three evenings or two days a week. And their studies will be compressed into that. When they come in, the place will be full.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (07:45.571)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (07:58.67)
and then we'll see.
Ray (08:10.954)
going to the coffee bars will be there and all of those things. But what they get used to is this fact that they can study with and develop relationships with a group of people who are really going through the same challenges and not just their challenges of study, but the life challenges that they face. You mentioned our students have families, they caring responsibilities often, they need to get money in for their families. I often say when I talk to my colleagues,
Rt Hon Justine Greening (08:28.718)
Yeah, thanks a lot.
Ray (08:40.04)
staff say look our job is to be third on their list of priorities. Number one will be their family, number two will be having enough money to get by and we need to be number three because then when something happens in their life and it surely will we're not the thing that they want to drop off the bottom it's something else so we we try to make sure that we spend our time remaining relevant to them and giving them something that they want out of this and you know it's one of the great one of the most joyous days for us is graduation because
Rt Hon Justine Greening (08:45.838)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (08:51.246)
Mm-hmm.
Ray (09:08.63)
Graduations are always brilliant for students, but what we tend to have is you'll see people going up and coming down and get their photograph with their own kids there, looking up at them going, wow, look at that. That's my mom or dad there wearing that silly hat with that big gown on. That's incredible. So we think we have a really big influence on those aspirations for all those kids as well.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (09:29.452)
And tell us a little bit about the students in the sense of, you know, a lot of them, there's a brilliant video on your website of a lady who, you know, was in healthcare, but now has set up an entire, you know, company and nursing supply company for agency nurses. And a lot of people presumably are using coming to...
wherever, which bit of get-the-wit is to sort of further their career, into it, they might be in construction, but actually thinking, I want to get into management, I want to kind of go up the ladder, and you're literally helping them take that step of progression into a proper career rather than being stuck, as it were, at a lower skilled role.
Ray (10:07.253)
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Our students come for a purpose. Most of them tend to be in low-paid jobs when they come. They're in social care or they're maybe working on a building site or they're working in restaurant or something. We have a reasonable proportion of students who actually run small businesses when they come to us with their ambition of being
Rt Hon Justine Greening (10:20.078)
Thank you.
Ray (10:34.644)
getting bigger businesses, learning the skills that they need. If you go into one of our classes and ask how many people would like to run their own business, it's about 80%. So it's a very different mindset to a normal class of 18 year olds who haven't really thought about that. And I think I've always thought that a lot of that is about the nature of these students. They've often come to the UK from other countries, maybe 10 years or more ago. And you don't, despite what the press might say, you don't get given very much.
You have to work your way and make your place in this society. So I think people see running their own business as a way of taking some control. But we also have people, construction management, I've mentioned already, people look around and go, hold on, that person gets paid a lot more than me. What is it that they've got? Well, they're a manager and they've got this qualification. So actually, if I can get that, that will help. And then we have a whole raft of people, mean, thousands of people who have come to us
who are working in the health and social care industry and really want to be nurses. And they come to us and they get their degree and their qualification. Yes. But what we don't yet have is a way of getting the students from the end of that qualification into nursing, which is where they want to be. Because of course, they can't just give up everything and become a trainee nurse with no pay for their family. the change to the apprenticeships to allow over 25s has helped.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (11:39.822)
which is what we desperately need more nurses as well.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (11:52.92)
Yes.
Ray (11:58.687)
but we're still trying to engage with the NHS England and others to try and come up with a scheme that can feed these students who are really well experienced in giving care, who now have degree level qualifications and who want to be nurses into something that will help solve one of the problems that we face in the NHS, which is a staff shortage.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (12:15.534)
And I guess, you know, when you're looking at your learnings and how policy can change, so we can get more people from disadvantaged, low socioeconomic backgrounds into university, but in a way that isn't just good for them, it's good for all of us. I would say it's good for all of us full stop. But, you know, these are potentially important, but, you know, to some extent.
quite discreet problems to fix, but they'll have a massive impact if you can just finish off that pipeline for that person to be able to get into nursing.
Ray (12:46.74)
Absolutely, and I think that's just one example actually. There's a very big growth agenda right now. So we have the nursing thing, we have people going into construction management, we have people studying entrepreneurship who are going to create wealth through their own businesses. But in and of itself, GBS in the last four years has added about 2,000 well-paid jobs to the economy.
So we make a direct contribution to that. If you go to some of the areas where our campuses are, the businesses around there thrive because they've suddenly got people coming along who weren't there. So Saturdays and Sundays, the cafes are still open because our students are there wanting to consume. So we have a significant impact on the economy, I think, but we have a significant impact on the economy in those communities perhaps that most need it. And I think that's really important that we can focus on that.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (13:38.648)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (13:42.998)
And so you're able to really develop talent where it otherwise wouldn't happen. But often, and for the most part, with people who really motivated and want to do better and are basically willing to invest in themselves and put the time in to really kickstart a career here.
Ray (14:04.852)
Yeah, I I often say to colleagues, we talk as an organisation about return on investment for our students and we don't mean the financial investment, right, because actually that's one thing, but it's the emotional investment they have to put in, the intellectual, all of those things that mean they have to balance things that most of us don't have to worry about, you know, how are going to make sure that I've got all of this ready for the kids, the kids are sick, but I still have classes to do, I've still got assignments to write, you know, that it takes a big investment of their time and energy to do that.
And think one of the things you sort of talked about policymakers and so on, I think one of the things that we've realized over the time is, offer all, we insist that all of our students do a foundation year because most of them have not been in education for quite a while. And actually what we've realized is that that is so important for them to get them from where they start to be able to benefit from a university qualification. And I think that...
Rt Hon Justine Greening (14:47.118)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (14:56.184)
So for people who less familiar, that is basically a year where they get the nuts and bolts of what they're going to need to be able to get onto then the degree course and we know that they'll have a good chance of succeeding.
Ray (15:08.925)
Yeah, it's predominantly about, if you want to put characterise as how to be a student, how to be a good student. It's about the academic skills you need. You can imagine if you've not been in education for 10, 15 years, maybe you've not been in education in a UK system at all, there's a lot to learn about how to do that, how to get yourself back up to gear. And at the same time to get some of the subject knowledge that brings everybody to the same level for us to start into the programmes.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (15:13.262)
Yeah.
Ray (15:36.198)
So I think that's become more more apparent to us that that's a really crucial aspect of the provision for these students. And it's one of the things that's been questioned by policymakers because the university started effectively just offering it as an alternative route for 18-year-olds. But actually for these older students, it's so crucial. If they were to go straight in, they would not be able to manage that. So yeah, I think we've learned that.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (15:53.358)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (15:57.218)
show.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (16:02.38)
Yeah, and it's de-risking them going on the course, isn't it really? So it's sort of time well spent to make sure that, I mean, if they can't get through the foundation year, then you you've probably found something out and they, you know, and it saves them as well, the time and the money and they can have a think about whether it's really the right course for them. But I do think it's important. Do you think there are any other areas where policymakers should be thinking a bit more flexibly or?
Ray (16:05.299)
Yes.
Ray (16:13.34)
this.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (16:30.542)
Carefully about how to remove barriers for people like
Ray (16:35.73)
Yeah, think, you know, one of the challenges is that I don't think this group of students that we work with are considered by policymakers. When people think about higher education, they think about 18 year olds with A levels and the whole system, the regulatory environment, all of those things are set up to deal with those students and they're not set up to deal with the challenges that these students have and the needs that these students have.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (16:50.294)
Yeah.
Ray (17:04.048)
So, you know, I've thought about this a lot. We've got, I'm sitting at the moment in one of our Leeds campuses and we have students who drive to us every twice a week from north of Newcastle. And I've worked out in that journey, they must pass, they pass five different or six different universities, but they don't even notice them because they know that that's not something that they can benefit from. And I think that one of the things that would help is if the
Rt Hon Justine Greening (17:14.648)
Mm-hmm.
Ray (17:33.841)
if policymakers were to think about this group of students as well as the 18 year olds. Obviously the 18 year olds are the bulk of people who going to higher education. But actually what we've got is a group of older, really committed students who've got a lot of life experience, who know what they want, who aren't just following a sort of, I finished school, I'm going to go to university and then I'll think about what I do. So I think they are worthy of being properly considered in the policy environment. I think that's the big lack at the moment there.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (17:54.423)
Yeah, yeah.
Ray (18:03.804)
They're not. And from a regulatory point of view, they're thought of suspiciously, I think, because nobody had bothered to count them in when they started, when they thought about how many students there would be. So they're considered very suspiciously. And I don't think enough of the policymakers come and see them and talk to them and understand them and what they do. And I think that would really help if we had better understanding from the regulator and the policymakers about.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (18:09.922)
Yes, I think that's it.
Ray (18:31.929)
who these students are and what they want and why they're important, think, not just for themselves and for education in its own self, but also from the development of growth in the economy and so on.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (18:43.682)
Yes, and I think for any government that wants to pursue an agenda of lifelong learning, then this is clearly an area where it's already happening and there's a lot you can learn from this cohort of students to understand what made them take that final step when actually we want a lot more people in their working life to be thinking about
what kind of education do I need to be able to make the next step in my career? So I totally agree. And I think in a sense, rather than, as you say, looking at people suspiciously, actually what we should be doing is understanding how we get more people to think in a similar entrepreneurial, innovative way. And some of the learnings that an institution like GEDU has across the board on flexibility, literally what it takes to break down barriers for those students.
Ray (19:15.121)
Yes.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (19:34.794)
I think is absolutely crucial. Ray, I wanted to also though ask you about your own journey because I think, you know, it's fascinating to hear you talk, you clearly really, really care about this as I do. So just, I'm just interested in how you end up in the sort of role you're in now. Did you plan to, as it were, being in education or was that something that just happened?
Ray (19:36.976)
It's always been a mystery to me. People sort of say to you, or what was your...
Rt Hon Justine Greening (20:01.677)
I'm sorry.
Ray (20:05.583)
But I say, I don't really know how I've ended up in this place. Other than, I've always just tried to, when there's been an opportunity to try something new, I've always said, yeah, I'll have a go at that. I come from a typically working class background, I suppose, in Birmingham. I was first from family to go to university, but I was almost certainly first from my street to go to university. And I was terrible at university. I mean, I was shockingly bad.
literally had no point of anchor. didn't know what I was doing there. was really useless. But anyway, I sort of
Rt Hon Justine Greening (20:41.454)
So you just sort of, it was a step that just didn't work for you at that stage in your life and so you had to make the most of it.
Ray (20:47.023)
Yeah, I I scraped through, think they felt sorry for me and just gave me something to get out of the way. then I did what often people do and I couldn't really think what I wanted to do. I I'd done a degree in maths and I've subsequently learned that people who do a degree maths often go off and earn lots of money, but nobody had told me that. So I trained to be a teacher and I... Yeah.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (21:10.36)
We need lots of maths teachers, Ray, so not a bad...
Ray (21:13.999)
I moved to London and I taught in London for a couple of years and I actually I loved teaching. Who knew that I loved I think I was okay but I loved it. But I decided that one day I just had this sort of moment when I thought there's more to life than this. One of the things about a teaching qualification is it makes you quite portable. I decided I would look to see about working overseas and there was some I applied for a number of things but there was an advert for a scheme run by the British Council for teachers to go out to Botswana.
and I knew nothing about Batoan at the time, but I thought, that sounds interesting. So I applied for this thing and there were about 50 of us went out together. Actually, I got posted out to this small school in a place called Darala on the east of the country, maybe about 100 kilometers from the nearest town. So really isolated. lived in a tin roof shack, no water, no electricity. So you can imagine going from living in London, you know,
Rt Hon Justine Greening (21:58.094)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (22:03.31)
world.
You hear that? Uh huh.
Last.
Ray (22:11.13)
as a young 20-ish person that into it. It was quite a change. And I think that was probably the best thing I've ever done because I learned a lot about resilience and how to just manage being where you are and making the most of those things. during my time.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (22:25.334)
And guess very different from London schools in terms of the working environment.
Ray (22:28.527)
Yes, and during my time there, I again discovered something I didn't know, but I turned out to be very good at coaching track and field athletics. So I ended up, and I ended up for a number of things, I ended up going to the capital and being the director of coaching for their track and field association. And then I decided that I'd better come back and learn something about what I'd been doing because I'd just been making it up as I went along. So I came back to study a master's degree.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (22:38.414)
you
Rt Hon Justine Greening (22:47.15)
Wow.
Ray (22:56.845)
And I was terrified, right? So I'm a bit like our students at this point. I'm mid-30s and I'm feeling I'm not really up to this and not capable of doing this. And I always remember... Well... So... But I... Well, no, that's true. But I always remember there was one guy, I'll never forget him, Dr. Golby. He was head of the course. And I went to see him the night before my Masters program and said, look, I'm not going to come.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:05.922)
Sounds like a bad case of imposter syndrome Ray, you're all this great stuff, you're so good that you get swept up to coach national teams but it's still not enough to persuade you that you're good teacher.
Ray (23:26.958)
because I don't think I'll be able to do this. And he just went, don't be bloody stupid. I wouldn't have offered you a place if you didn't think you did. that really made a, that's one moment that made a huge difference for me. And I've never forgotten that. Anyway, I turned out to be better at it than I thought. And I got offered a scholarship to do a PhD. So I got sucked into sort of academia and then worked my way through, you know, lecturer, senior lecturer, head of department, dean, sorry.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:32.588)
Yeah.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:36.974)
Mm-hmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:45.664)
Yeah.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:51.618)
But let's just, I'm just taking a learning here for anyone watching this, because I know exactly what you mean, Ray. Sometimes you're in these situations and you're thinking, this is going to be really tough. Actually, I think the lesson is that that person that got you on the course that you spoke to, the lecturer, the professor, he could see you were good enough. And sometimes you almost just have to accept that someone who knows a lot more about life than
Ray (24:20.522)
Man.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (24:21.152)
you is telling you you will be fine and you've just got to go with it and actually he was spot on and effectively in giving you that confidence in that moment kick starts your career doesn't he because it all so you go off do you do your PhD and then and then you're on your way
Ray (24:33.077)
Absolutely, absolutely.
Ray (24:40.526)
Yes, and I think that's one of the things that, you know, there is a learning there because one of the things that we try to do with our students is instill confidence in them because they've got lots of skills and lots of life skills but this is new to them and it's quite scary. I did well in my masters programs, I was terrified that I wouldn't. So I just worked so hard because I was absolutely terrified I'd be useless and they'd find me out and all of those things and, you know, I turned out to be that I was okay at it.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (24:47.246)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (24:58.348)
Yep.
Ray (25:11.041)
But that sort of stuck with me and all of that history I suppose stays with you as you enter academia. And then you've got a choice about where you want to go. If you're an academic, you could go down a research track, you could do this, you could do that, you could do that. And I really enjoyed doing research and I was a sports scientist, I also enjoyed working in, I worked in Premier League football and first class cricket and all of those things. And they were all great, fundamentally the bit that really drove me as I've gone through my career, every time I sit back and think about what it is.
It's all about that opportunity for people because I think I benefited hugely from opportunities throughout my career. I didn't always take them, but they were there for me. And I think that's when I fall back and take stock every now and again, I don't do that often, but every now and again I do. think, you know what, that is the bit that's kept me going in this and why I took this job rather than that job and why I took that route rather than that route. Yeah.
I think it's, so you are, you can't, you are built by all of those experiences that you have as you grow up. you know, I've been really, really fortunate in terms of where I've ended up in terms of the career that I've had. And as I said, there are a few key people in that along the way, but there's also a lot of, you know, just me sort of going, I'll give that a go. You know, I'm a serial.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (26:33.1)
Yeah, okay, so that's where the learning is, is just, just try it because actually it's a bit like the Botswana choice. What's the worst case scenario? Worst case scenario is you get there, you think, I can't hack this, I'm going to come home. But actually you've tried it and as it turned out, it sounds in many respects like it was the making of you because it made you just think, I can, I can do something. This has been an amazing experience.
Ray (26:41.196)
Yes.
Ray (26:48.065)
Yes, yes.
Ray (26:57.964)
Absolutely, absolutely. I think, you I said before when people ask me how you end up here, people ask me for advice. Now, younger colleagues will say, how do you get? And my answer to them is always volunteer for things. When somebody says, I need somebody to take on this project, put your hand up, because that's the best way of demonstrating your abilities and testing yourself is to try stuff you can't do. One of my colleagues, when they were asked, you know,
defined for me confidence, he said it's the ability to do something you didn't know you could do. And I think that's a really brilliant definition actually and it gives a real insight into how you instill confidence into your students by challenging them, not just by making life easy but by giving them something. Sometimes people think they'll just make it easy and they'll be successful and that'll be great but actually
Rt Hon Justine Greening (27:32.898)
Mmm.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (27:36.792)
Yeah.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (27:45.068)
Yeah. And like, sorry, can I write?
Ray (27:55.584)
giving them something they didn't think they could do. That was me when I went back for my Masters. I didn't think I could do it. The first assignment I got back, I was so delighted that I'd done well. That made me feel like, well, maybe I can do the next one. And it's really important that we do that challenging all the time.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (28:12.12)
And that's how people learn. They're not gonna learn by doing the same thing over and over again. You learn by stepping outside your comfort zone, trying something different, and you might like it, you might not like it, but either way, you've learned from doing it. And I think you're so, it's so right. know, sometimes the times that we learn the most are actually quite tough times because we're sort of having to do things we've not done before, but actually...
That's when you really make your future because you are challenging yourself and finding out that, yeah, you were able to do all this stuff and the world didn't collapse and it was fine.
Ray (28:46.635)
Yeah. Yep. Or sometimes that you can't do it and actually don't go there again.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (28:55.116)
Yeah, or give it another go and you'll nail it the second time. But either way, there have been learnings from it and you will have learned something from it as well. I think it's absolutely crucial. So just in terms of if you were passing on, just before we wrap up, your learnings from the role that you've got now with all of the students that you support and the opportunities you help them access.
but also drawing on your own career. What would the advice be in a sense to someone watching this who's maybe in that position, they're into their career, they feel like they can do more, they're not really sure how to kickstart that next step of their life, that next chapter, what would you say to them?
Ray (29:38.539)
Yeah, it's a bit trite because it's something everybody says, but actually the sort of older I've got, more true I think it is. You have to pursue things that you've got some passion for. If you really want to push yourself to the sort of as far as you can go and your abilities will let you go, that's only really going to happen if you have a drive to do that thing. You know, I could have gone into another career where I'd sort of the motions, you know, I'd have just done the job and so on, but...
Rt Hon Justine Greening (29:48.888)
Mm-hmm.
Ray (30:07.114)
I found myself in education. found that I was good at being a teacher. I loved being a teacher. But actually I found myself working in schools that were in the time in the poorer parts of London and then out in rural Botswana. I love Botswana, I love the people, but very different environment and taught me so much about that. But actually it's that bit of passion that, the jobs that I've done best when I look back are the ones that I've really cared about.
And I think that's crucial. find the thing, and I know it's a sort of everybody says it, but I think that's true. And I think that one of the ways you do that and the overarching thing for me is just keep having a go at stuff, keep volunteering. If you're in a workplace, don't be the one that sits there and goes, well, I'm not doing that because they're not paying me. Just have a go at it, right? Because actually you'll get reward for it in the end because you'll have a set of skills and experience.
that you didn't have before. And when you go for an interview for the next level of job, you can say not, I think I'll do this. You can say, well, I did this. Look, so you know, you can trust me with this thing. So I think all of those things. And in terms of the sort of bigger picture of where what I've learned about how you might break barriers down, which is sort of where we started, I think it's about having a real clear understanding about what those barriers are. People talk about how do you break them down.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (31:28.91)
Okay.
Ray (31:30.714)
For our students that we work with, it's the fact that they've got to manage these complex lives. So what can we do to simplify it? And most importantly, and I think it's the fundamental bit that I would say is the success for GBS and for GEDU, whatever we do is built around the needs of the student. And anyone who works for us will know that, that it's the needs of the students that are paramount.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (31:38.03)
Thank
Ray (31:56.03)
And I think that's the absolutely crucial because if you start from that point, then you can break down those barriers because they are the only things that matter for that student is to get through those.
Rt Hon Justine Greening (32:05.582)
And if they're motivated then, you know, that's the piece of the equation in a sense that only they can bring but if they've got that then, you know, they can really start motoring. Look, Ray, it's been fantastic having you on the Leading with Purpose podcast. I think it's absolutely brilliant because it just shows how, in a sense, I think the story of this one really is follow your passion, you know, follow that sense of purpose because actually once you've found it then...
It's so rewarding, isn't it, to be able to have a career that really enables you to pursue that. And as you do now, to see so many of the people literally being helped to do exactly the same, different sectors, different sense of purpose that they have for different things. But ultimately, you know, it's that education that GEDU is providing, you know, across all of its different areas that is really making the difference so...
Ray (32:34.858)
Yeah.
Ray (32:42.41)
and
Rt Hon Justine Greening (33:03.406)
Professor Ray Lloyd, Group Deputy CEO of GEDU, thanks so much for being on the podcast. It's been absolutely brilliant and we're looking forward to getting feedback from people when they've had a chance to see it.
Ray (33:15.01)
Thanks, thanks Justine I really enjoyed the conversation, thank you.
