Cultivating Talent and Values in the Workplace at SMS
Judy Keir has been a driving force behind the cultural and ethical backbone of SMS for over four years. Her career with the company began with the significant responsibility of directing human resources, but within two years, Judy's got the role of Chief People Officer, an expansive position that sees her overseeing not just HR but also the company's ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) initiatives, learning and development, diversity and inclusion, as well as marketing and communications.
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Transcript
Justine Greening:
Welcome to this week's Fit for purpose podcast. I'm really delighted to be joined by Judy Keir. She's chief people officer at SMS Plc. And through our work with the brilliant team at SMS, we've really looked at the company's impact across the UK and the opportunities for where it can go next. And we pulled all of that together in an impact report for SMS, which we launched at the end of last year. It's brilliant, brilliant stuff that you're doing. Judy. Can you maybe start there? Let's start with your own role as Chief people officer at Smsplc.
Justine Greening:
What does it actually mean for people who are less familiar, maybe, with that kind of role? What's it mean? And in a sense, what's your journey to be in that role as well?
Judy Keir:
It sounds very grand, I think, sometimes, doesn't it? But you're right, what does it actually mean? So I was thinking about this, just kind of to sum it up, I suppose. I've been with SMS four and a half years and in a bit of a journey, I started off as HR director and after a couple of years was promoted into Chief People officer. So the rema is quite wide. I look after human resources, I also look after the ESG agenda, learning and development, diversity and inclusion culture, all big meaty things, and marketing and communications. So I think if people say, what is that all about, really? I suppose ultimately it's really about championing the people agenda. And to simplify even further, it's about doing the right thing for the people in the organization. So that sounds very simplistic for a lot of very big nitty areas, but I think, in essence, for me, that's what it comes down to. I had a journey, which I think for young people is quite nice to hear.
Judy Keir:
It wasn't a straightforward journey, it's a bit like a wiggly worm, I suppose. So I'm going to show my age a little bit and it's quite Scottish, I suppose, as far as the higher education here. But I started off at school doing O grades, which definitely gives my age away, and then I went on to do my hires. But at the stage of kind of doing your hires, I got a little bit giddy and nightclubs came along and other things came along and my head got turned and I didn't do very well. When I done my hires, I got a couple, but my plan was to go to uni, so it kind of fell apart. I was really lucky because I'm still lucky enough to have my parents, which I really appreciate, because a lot of people don't. And they were really supportive and it was like, it's not the end of the world, what do you want to do? And I said, I think I still want to go to uni. Okay, well, there'll be other ways of doing it.
Judy Keir:
And I said, well, how does that look? So I went away and had a look and they were helpful. And I ended up working for a year in a very well known upmarket Glasgow restaurant. It doesn't exist anymore and it was great, but I also done two crash hires at night school, so I had to work during the day, I studied at night and I got the grades that I needed. That then allowed me to follow the path that I originally wanted to do into Uni. When I went to Uni, I'd done a general kind of business degree and HR was one element of that and I couldn't stand it. And all of the people in my class, we failed our HR assignments, we just didn't get it. And all of us said to each other, we will never work in HR, we don't even know what it means. And I think out of quite a small class, about four of us are now working within HR.
Judy Keir:
So doesn't it just show you that things are not linear? And when I left Juneau, I worked in sales and then I worked in recruitment. And one day I used to go out and visit HR directors and I remember sitting thinking, wow, they've got nice offices, I like their family photos and I like their cheese plan. I want a bit of that. And whilst I worked in recruitment sales, I went back to Uni to do a postgrad and I worked during the day and at night I done my postgrad and then I moved into HR proper. So here's a bit of a convoluted journey for you, but I think what.
Justine Greening:
It shows is I think sometimes when people look at someone who's been really successful, there's always this sense it's a straight line that was always going to happen. And actually, the reality is it never is, is it? I mean, there's always pitfalls and it's about how you actually get through them that really makes the difference. So now, within SMS, obviously you've definitely put your stamp on the role and how you're doing it, and there's quite a lot of key initiatives that you've really brought in to try and help improve the employee experience and engagement. Tell us a little bit about your focus, the priorities and the impact you feel it's had for people who are at SMS.
Judy Keir:
One of the kind of main areas when I joined was very much about the values of the organization. And when I joined in 2019, someone said, oh, great time you join, we're about to launch the values. And I said, oh, that's amazing. And I just asked about that journey to get to the values and employee involvement. And when I got the answer that I got, I thought, right, we're going to scrap this and we're going to start again. So that was one of my first forties into SMS. I spent more than 100 hours going around all locations, invited all employees that wanted to come, and we had culture sessions about how it felt to work in the organization and using kind of keywords. So the employees picked our five core values and we had a bit of fun with it as well because when we settled on our core values we then said how do they look? If you brought them to life, how would they look? So our core values are safety, customer excellence, innovation, sustainability and pride.
Judy Keir:
So it was really interesting because halfway through these sessions pride had a love heart attached to it and I thought that's pretty standard. And then one of our sessions, one of the guys came in and he drew a lion and it was the most amazing lion, just a front on lion with a big lion's name and everyone kind of voted on it. And that's now our icon for pride as a lion's head. So our values were picked by our people, created by them and then we done another session about how would you live in breezes, how would you bring them to life.
Justine Greening:
And it's probably worth saying that, I guess, for you as a company that has innovated smart metering technology and you almost straddle that whole net zero agenda of not only changing through putting in smart meters and delivering those, but also then looking at that next generation of what comes next on battery technology and everything, I guess. Do you think that's where the pride element of the values came from? People really feel like there's a sense of purpose at SMS, I think with.
Judy Keir:
SMS because it's very entrepreneurial and we've been going for 28 years, we've got over 1500 employees, so it's fairly chunky, but there's a definite pride to the workforce and I think that did resonate with them. Having the lion was all a bit of fun and stuff. I think you're absolutely right. I think our sustainability agenda is key. 2030 is when we aim to be carbon neutral. It's pretty aggressive target and we have a lot of people who come to work for us now who look at those values and behaviors on our website and actually it's what draws them to us. And they say I looked at the values as a lot of people would for interview, but your sustainability, your pride or whatever, that's what drew me. And also we've got videos of different employees in our workforce that bring them to life, so it's not just on paper.
Judy Keir:
And we launched them actually again for a bit of fun. February a couple of years ago we launched our Love Awards lov. So that's living our values and what happens every quarter our employees vote for each other, for someone else. It's just went the extra mile linked to our value. And do you know what? This is what you get. I think actually I'm just looking at what I have got. So I've got prize on my Lanyard and you get a Lanyard with your value and you get a little pin button and I think a 20 pound voucher. You don't get the world out of this.
Judy Keir:
But you know what, people are so engaged with the whole process of how that looks that really buy into it. So I am proud of our values and behaviors, often fact, I suppose if you like, your values and behaviors are your DNA of your organization. It's what builds your culture. And if they're not really there and not really alive and they're just something on the wall, you're going to fall down at the first hurdle. You're not going to grow as an organization. So that's one of the areas I'm really proud of. The team, the HR team that I have as well, they're a great bunch. When I joined they were pretty disparate, but now they add value and they've got credibility.
Judy Keir:
But I think more than anything, they're trusted. They're trusted by the business and they're trusted by employees, which is really important when you deal with a whole host of sensitive issues and a pretty meaty agenda about growing an organization. And the last thing really, I suppose on the engagement side, you didn't really measure engagement before I joined and I decided to use an external organization so there was no bias and anonymity for people. So we use Best Companies and in 2021 and 2022 we were kind of classed just entry level one to watch. But February of this year we became one star. There's three stars for really high levels of engagement. So I'm proud of that as an organization that we've achieved that, I think. You know what I always say, it's nice to get certificates, it's nice to get awards, but it's not about the badge on the wall, it's about that sentiment is great, but it's about all the hard work that goes on behind it.
Judy Keir:
And for me, yes, going to award ceremony or winning something is great, but all the hard work that's into it, that's what people sometimes don't see. But with Best Companies, I'm really proud of that because that shows the trajectory of where we've been as an organization. It shows the engagement levels are increasing year on year and it shows that a lot of internal initiatives are working. But I think for our people, the main thing that we do as a team never assume anything. We make sure that we listen to our people and actively listen and that's in a whole host of different forums that we do it. But if you're going to ask for feedback, you need to act on it or there's nothing worse.
Justine Greening:
Yeah, it's got to be authentic, hasn't it? I think in a sense it's probably worth us now touching on some of the work through the Purpose coalition but also the work that SMS has done on social mobility because that has been a really practical lens in a sense that you brought to all of this work in terms of what you're hoping to then try and drive. So give people who won't be familiar as much with SMS as a business a sense of where you're based, but also some of those really practical steps you're now taking to extend those opportunities to people who can really benefit from them.
Judy Keir:
Sure. So we are multi sites throughout the UK. We have sites that are close to areas of high deprivation. We have a contact centre and a training academy in Bolton. We have a warehouse in Yorkshire. Yes, we've got a nice head office in the city centre in Glasgow, but we're based in Cardiff and Doncaster as well. So if you want to call, know there's areas, know people may toil to get onto that entry level kind of career goal. And what we wanted to do is just look and see, I suppose, from that wider ability that we have to help people join our organization.
Judy Keir:
So there's a couple of things that we've done internally and externally. Internally we've tried to create awareness, I suppose, on the diversity and inclusion front. And every organization, well, hopefully every organization will have a voluntary monitoring forum. And last year we decided to add four questions regarding social economic diversity on there to allow us to inform us, I suppose, to create a strategy for improving social mobility. So I think that was quite good. I think that was quite secure leading that we've done it. What we've also done is a campaign all of this year to increase the uptake of the understanding for people why we're asking them to fill in the voluntary monitoring form and also increase the uptake. So I will be quite transparent with it.
Judy Keir:
I spoke to other organizations to say, where are you? And good organizations that I've spoken to seem to be sitting about 50% uptake. I haven't spoken to anyone with any higher uptake, although I'm sure there'll be many organizations listening to this saying we've got higher, but we have doubled our percentage return since January this year. We're just below 50% just now.
Justine Greening:
And my email is this on their actual employee.
Judy Keir:
This is disclosing, if you want to.
Justine Greening:
Call it, as it were.
Judy Keir:
Yeah, the protective characteristics, protected characteristics and their socioeconomic background. So that will help us inform a whole host of different supportive activities, everything from targeted recruitment to training and development to awareness and understanding internally and externally. But unless you have, I suppose if you like a more robust and complete data set, then you can't really act on it. But I know it's a challenge for many organizations, but hats off to Tim, our CEO, because he actually created a short video that went out to employees. He completely backs it and it was just about, hey guys, this is why we're doing it, this is what we're asking you to do. But this is important, the thing we could do with information so that's helpful for people to have a greater understanding but also for us to understand where employees have came from and any challenges that they have. We worked with it and we still work with the foundation. So they're a charity, they do support the Beam community, and they have a maintenance scheme that anyone in the UK can join.
Judy Keir:
I've been part of that and I found it really enlightening, and so have some of our senior people. So they have people that perhaps might not have family that perhaps have went to university or university is not the be all and end all, but they might not be in senior roles or know how to have got there. And they have great ability, and all they need is someone of a helping hands to listen to them and help guide them. So that has been great that we've been able to work with them, but we've taken it a step further and we're working on a kind of local Tomorrow Leaders program in our Bolton Contact Center. We're going to use the Bolton Contact Center, but we're working with the Leto Foundation for them to go wider into the Bolton community. And you see where are the leaders of the future to offer twelve people that opportunity to come in for the day and we will run it, we're paying for it. We're using their expertise as well. And just to see where is the future talent.
Judy Keir:
It will work for us and it will work for them. So they're a great charity to be involved in, and I can't rate them highly enough. We're involved in a lot of apprenticeships, internships, skill placements. We've done so much with skills. We've done reverse mentoring through a disability company as well, which is really interesting to do that. And we're part of a young person's guarantee. We're a cornerstone employer. We're part of the career ready scheme as well.
Judy Keir:
There's a lot in there, I suppose that helps our talent pipeline, but ultimately it's the right thing to do. And that's what it comes back down to again, creating awareness and understanding and then acting on what you find.
Justine Greening:
And do you find that within SMS itself for your employees? Actually doing more of this makes a big difference. It's not only broadening out who's coming in, but it's also the fact that actually people like the fact that their business is making a difference in this way.
Judy Keir:
Absolutely. Our Hoyland warehouse looks after kind of the logistical side of our business, and they have been amazing. So our leaders within the warehouse have supported a local high school and Ashria Academy Trust. And we took part in it was a new initiative, and what happened was it was called Shaping Our Futures Project. And we shared real job descriptions with the school students, applied for roles in the warehouse. Members of our teams conducted the interviews, and then we visited the warehouse and we showed them the full end to end kind of stock and logistics process. We attended the school, they had a finale event to showcase what they'd been doing during the project, but it was a pilot for the Academy as an alternative to work experience and it looks likely to be rolled out across Yorkshire. So our warehouse are so proud of that.
Judy Keir:
So that pride that we go back to is one of our values. And to answer your question, it definitely has an impact on our workforce that are here because they feel that they're able to give back to the local community or schools. But actually, overall, as an organization, it's a win win because that talent pipeline that's coming through, some of these young people hopefully will come into our warehouse and work in there and have a career where they're able to, if they want to, be promoted through the organization.
Justine Greening:
And presumably, you've got some brilliant, almost stories of people who've had a journey with SMS that that's then enabled to open up as an opportunity for them.
Judy Keir:
It's funny, Justine, because I was thinking, we've got so many right, we've got so many stories and there's one and you think, well, is it social mobility here? But it's one I just like to share, I suppose, of inspiration more than anything, because I don't think it's shared enough. So our chief executive, Tim Mortlock, came into our organization as a graduate. He worked for a company called UPL, which SMS bought, and he has developed his career through the organization. So he was a graduate I joined four years ago and he was Managing director within Energy Services, one of our divisions. And then he became Chief operating officer and then he became Chief executive officer. And I think I always say to Timmy, share your story a bit more wildly. It shows you that anything is possible, really.
Justine Greening:
You don't always know where that next.
Judy Keir:
Step journey is going to be, you just don't. And I think there's many different tidbits I could share with you, but that's one that really stands out because you think, wow, look where our chief executive has came from. Look at that journey he's been on. So you can come into an organization and you're able to do that and.
Justine Greening:
Tell us a little bit more about the Bolton Academy as well, because I think it's just such a good example of an employer just taking the initiative to say, right, we need to create a skills pipeline for ourselves. That's not just going to happen, so let's be really active about that. So just explain what it means for people who get involved in it and the opportunities that they then get out of being at the Academy.
Judy Keir:
So we have our training academy based in Bolton, which is kind of technical skills, if you like. About 40% of our workforce are engineers. They install smart meters, gas and electric. And also we have moved into the kind of heat pump installation and then into solar and electric vehicle charging points. So our academy is amazing. In it. We have great instructors and trainers. But what we also have, and everyone loves it we have like a small street that's set up and there's different houses that you go in and out and they have different boilers in very strange places that every house has a strange place for their boiler and they might be gas and they might be electric.
Judy Keir:
And we also have our electric vehicle charging points in there. So the instructors are able to work on real situations. It's not just sitting with a textbook, they're able to bring it to life. So all of our accreditations that our workforce need to have, they're able to go in there and make sure that they're still live, but we're able to upskill them as well. And I think within industry in general, a lot of organizations are upskilling their workforce so that they are multi skilled. And for us, as an organization, we look at the kind of smart meter rollout and we have a workforce that are phenomenal that we want to keep gainfully employed and that's why we're looking at three phase training, electric vehicle charging, we're multi skilling them and we're upskilling them. So the training academy is a great place to do it. Our engineers come and they spend a couple of weeks of their induction when they start with us, but they go back there for different training and it's great, it's a great place within a local community that is really welcoming as well.
Judy Keir:
So it works well for us.
Justine Greening:
And so lots of different things, actually in different places where SMS is present that you're doing that really drive social mobility. Where does it all go next, do you think, for SMS, this sort of real company purpose that you've got that's probably never been more relevant in relation to climate as well as social mobility, where do you see yourself taking it and what are the aspirations for the future?
Judy Keir:
I think for us, especially when we LinkedIn with the Purpose Coalition and we got a report back which was really useful and one of the things we thought we need to do more with local communities and we need to show more support and help our employees. So from that we do a lot more volunteering work for teamwork and with different employees. So we've supported the Bolton Food Bank, care homes, schools, we've done gardening, we've painted and that was eye opening because that's something our employees have really welcomed. And the other thing is, we set up a kind of sponsorship scheme for our employees and said, OK, in your local community, who needs help or support? And it could be an underage football team that needs goalposts, it could be someone that's going to Africa to do some good work and it could be someone else who's just got a playgroup and they're really struggling and they might close and lots of young mums that actually couldn't come to work. So all it is is a simple form. It's linked to our five values. Our employees filled in. We've never said no yet.
Judy Keir:
And what we look at doing is providing a donation to whatever cause, whether it's a charity event or something in their local community. And that's worked really well for us because it's about giving back of something close to employees hearts. It's helping local communities, but it's also linked in really well with our employees. So I think doing more within our local communities, we've certainly upped the support that we give local skills as well. And for us, all of that for me, when you look at ESG with environment and social and governance and know it's bandaged around everywhere now, but I suppose for us, we're very much the E because of what we do as an organization. That's without doubt, isn't it? Obviously we've got the governance with a Plc but the S sometimes I think forgot about this social bit, covers everything. It's not just your social mobility and your diversity and inclusion but it covers employee engagement and it covers mental health and it covers well being. There's so much that's in there and I think that's where our focus will remain.
Judy Keir:
I think everyone would like to be an employer of choice. I think we're a great employer to come into because we listen to our people but it's not ending. I think it's fluid and I think you have to bend in shape with the environment externally and with what your employees want internally. But I suppose inherently, I always say maybe we're better placed than a lot of other organizations, because what we do is all about sustainability. And that itself drives a lot of employees or potential employees to come and explore and work for us so we don't struggle to get people so they, like a lot of people, will know. I came to SNS because I really believe in what you do. I believe that journey that you're going on, your net zero journey, your carbon reduction journey and actually I believe on you as an organization with the values that you've got. So I think we're in a pretty positive place for the future.
Justine Greening:
I think it's brilliant. And I guess you can also, just, even with your supply chain, start to have those conversations about what you're doing and that impact and almost being a little bit of a hub, a platform for broader companies that maybe haven't quite got that reach of SMS to be able to be part of that as well.
Judy Keir:
Definitely. And I think there's some external initiatives we are part of and proud to be part of. We're a living wage employer, we're living our employer to be an accredited, real living wage employer we're proud of and not every smaller organization can do that, they can't afford to do it. But I think the sentiment around that fair work for fair pay and having entry level salaries that actually allow a decent standard of eleven I think is really important to SMS. So part of that when you look at the supply chain is we ask our supply chain to meet the real living wage as well. Whether that's cleaning staff, it doesn't matter. So that's one of our asks. We also ask them to meet our diversity and inclusion policy and just make sure that they adhere to our suppliers code of conduct which is pretty wide, there's modern slavery in there and all the other good stuff you would expect.
Judy Keir:
So it's pretty robust when we look at our supply chain and definitely one that we need to make sure is transparent in all that we do from our grid battery supply, which is in China, through to the supply of our meters that could be abroad as well. So we need to make sure that everything we're doing and we believe in is absolutely shown in our suppliers as.
Justine Greening:
Well and lived by them. And I guess as a sort of final area almost to talk about. I mean, obviously you're a senior leader in business. It's brilliant to see women in senior roles. And certainly it's something that I put a lot of my time into. I was the minister that did the gender pay gap regulations. But tell us a little bit about that journey as a woman but also then the advice, I mean we all need mentors, we all need good advice. Let's kind of dig into a little bit of how that's been for you actually.
Judy Keir:
So I think linking back to that kind of Wibbly wobbly journey, I suppose if you want to call it developing a young workforce is kind of Scottish based but they have something that they call no wrong path and I think that is really relevant to young people just now. There is no wrong path. I think if you're still at school and you don't know what to do, don't panic, there's lots of options. First of all, I would say speak to someone that you trust and if you don't have your mum and dad, you might have a carer or a grandparent or friends, parents that you trust. Speak to someone you trust for advice. You're never alone, sometimes even a trusted teacher. Speak to someone and if you are struggling and you're not sure what to do, there's always someone you can reach out to. I think it's not all about university.
Judy Keir:
People might get an apprenticeship, you might join a local organization, you could go to college. There's so many different things to do that you never fail because I think you always learn and grow as a person. But for me, get work experience while you're still at school, go and see if you can get a you know, knock on doors, go know you might feel embarrassed but listen, your friends are doing it and if they do it. And you don't do it, they're going to get the job and you won't.
Justine Greening:
Doesn't England can learn from Scotland on? Actually, my sense is that there's a much more structured approach on work experience and companies realizing that that's how young people develop. So I think you're absolutely right that it's not standard for people and yet actually it does really matter. So loads of good pearls there. Anything else? I feel like I interrupted you, then.
Judy Keir:
No, I think there's two things overall. I think if I was going to give any advice, there's probably two things I think that very much I would live and die by. And I think one is to remain humble. It doesn't matter where you are in life or what position you've got. For me, standing, watching someone new come into the organization, or a visitor, the way they speak to the receptionist or the cleaner should be exactly the same way they speak to the company owner or the chief executive. If it's not, they're not authentic. So that shows a real person to me. And I think whatever your journey, remember where you've came from and remember, whoever you're speaking to is someone's brother, sister, father, mother, that person is a real person.
Judy Keir:
And I think the other thing that I would live and die by is integrity. Never, ever compromise your own integrity. Whoever you work for, wherever you go, there's always a solution to things and I think you always keep that intact. If you do that, then you'll be okay.
Justine Greening:
I think that's absolutely brilliant advice and I think there's probably lots of people who've listened to this podcast maybe don't know so much about SMS, know a lot more now. But if people are interested in a career at SMS, where can they find out more details?
Judy Keir:
Sure. So we've got our website. If you click on that and then click on the career section, that will give you some videos, bring to life the values I've spoken about, and show you the opportunities that are there if you are interested in coming to work for us.
Justine Greening:
Brilliant. Well, look, it's been a fantastic podcast. Thanks so much for going through all of those different aspects of if you like your own journey, but the SMS piece of the social mobility jigsaw puzzle, it's been brilliantly having you on board. So, Judy Keir, chief People Officer at Smsplc, thank you very much for doing the podcast.
Judy Keir:
Thanks very much, justine, it's been a pleasure.
