Newcastle University’s Jane Robinson

In this episode of the Fit for Purpose Leadership podcast, Justine Greening interviews Professor Jane Robinson, the Pro Vice Chancellor for Engagement and Place at Newcastle University.

They discuss the role of universities in maximising partnership opportunities and benefiting society. They also talk about widening access to higher education, particularly in the North East of England, and the initiatives Newcastle University is involved in to support young people in realizing their ambitions.

Justine and Jane Robinson highlight the importance of collaboration between universities, local authorities, industry, and the community in creating opportunities and driving economic and social development.

Jane and Justine Greening also discuss the potential of devolution and the role of mayors in shaping the future of higher education.

Transcript

Rt Hon Justine Greening (00:01.39)

Welcome to this week's Fit for Purpose Leadership podcast. This week, I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Professor Jane Robinson. She's the Pro Vice Chancellor for Engagement and Place at Newcastle University. It's a university many of us will have heard of. I remember going to have a look around it when I was thinking about where to do my degree. So great to get a chance to talk to Jane today. And obviously, Newcastle is part of the Purpose Coalition,

which is fantastic. Jane, welcome to the podcast today. Pro Vice Chancellor of Engagement and Place, tell us a little bit about what that role encompasses for you.

Jane Robinson (00:44.822)

Thanks, Justine, and thanks for the invitation to participate in this podcast. It's quite an unusual role in some respects. I think I'm right in saying that my role here at Newcastle is the first pro vice chancellor that has place in its title. So I sit on the executive board and my responsibility is really about

maximising the partnership opportunities as a university that we have through our research, our education and also how we operate as a large anchor institution to maximise the benefit that we can bring to society both here in the North East but also nationally and internationally as well. So it's a really diverse and exciting portfolio.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (01:33.87)

And tell us a little bit about Newcastle as a university. I mean, obviously it's a major university. It's got a rich history in the region itself, but give us a sense of the student body, how many students, you know, the specialisms.

Jane Robinson (01:48.022)

Yeah, yeah, so.

As you say, Newcastle University has a very long tradition in the North East founded back in 1834 by the pioneers of the Industrial Revolution. And then it was really about looking to see how the university we could support the city and the wider region economically, socially in terms of health. And in many ways that's in our DNA. It's something that's really

with this university and it is often I think described as a good example of a civic university. So we are deeply embedded in our local community. Today we generate about a billion pounds for the economy. We have about 30,000 students both here in the North East but also in global campuses in Singapore and Malaysia. And also we employ over 6 ,000

people and one of the things that I'm really proud of is that we're a real living wage employer and that makes a real difference in the community. So we play lots of different roles and connecting what we do as a large organisation with lots of different research specialisms and obviously education as well to benefit the people of the North East but as I say more widely as well.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (03:17.07)

And that work that you do, as it were, upstream in communities, it's something I know that really matters to Newcastle. Tell us a little bit about where you're focusing your efforts to try and make sure that that aspiration that so many people have of going into universities is something that can be realised. And it's probably also worth saying, isn't it, I guess, that while a lot of the debate around...

getting into university now is framed around the fact that actually many people do have that chance. Probably if you think about the North East as a region, Jane, it is one of those areas where actually, you know, there's a lot of, there are lots of communities for whom going to university still feels something that's out of reach. And so, for the North East is a very live issue, isn't it, widening access still?

Jane Robinson (04:06.326)

Absolutely, Justine. I think that's been one of the great things about working with This Is Purpose. I think that sort of sense of how can we work together to share best practice and make a real difference in terms of the opportunities that people across the country are

have opened to them. In the North East, as you say, sadly, we have, I think, the lowest participation rates in higher education of anywhere in the country, which is something that is a real concern to us. We work in partnership with the other four universities in the North East around the North East Raising Aspiration Partnership to see how we can come together

to make a difference in that space. And one particular initiative that I'm really proud of is the work that we've done with Northumbria University, who are obviously also based in Newcastle and both universities, I think, have a real commitment to social mobility that I know is something that you've been really a passionate advocate for. And we've been working together on a project in the East End of Newcastle, working within two university centres.

What's really great about that is it's working with children and young people between about the ages of seven and 18 and creating learning centres that support them to realise their ambitions. And of course, university isn't for everyone, but it's important that the opportunity is there for those young people who want to go to university. And what we've seen there is that through that programme,

It's just been running for a couple of years. We've seen a significant increase in the number of young people coming to university as a result of that. And we also have our students volunteering in those centres. So it's a really great way, I think, of creating those pathways, those opportunities, perhaps for children and young people who wouldn't have access to some of those facilities otherwise.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (06:14.318)

Hmm.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (06:20.59)

And tell us a little bit, because I mean, it is about literally building talent pipelines. That's what you do as a university for your students. But that inter-university centre work is all about almost working upstream and building it upstream so that people have that chance. Getting people into it and helping them get through it can be a real challenge. So tell us some of the practical things that...

the universities are doing working together, the students, how would they, if I'm a very, let's say I'm one of those seven or eight year olds at a local primary, what kind of things might I be experiencing?

Jane Robinson (06:57.8)

So it's about

As you say, I think often people focus on that sort of sense once you get into sort of A levels, what do you go to university? How do you find out about different universities? But I think what we've learned is that you really need to work in those very early formative years. So working with primary schools as well as secondary schools and the centre that we have in the East End of Newcastle is

an existing community centre that was underused. So it's a familiar setting for those children and young people, but also their families. So providing support and advice, both for the children, but also for the families, getting them interested in different subject areas and different career opportunities. So I went to an amazing session recently where...

the children were talking about engineers and famous female engineers and they had...

Rt Hon Justine Greening (08:01.39)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Jane Robinson (08:02.134)

presentations, that sort of, so they're building not just their knowledge about opportunities that are out there, but are also building their skills and their confidence. So there's a whole range of sort of practical things that are happening after schools. And we work very, very closely with the community of schools in that area as well. So it's very much embedded in what the schools are trying to achieve themselves. And as I say, one of the things I particularly like is that kind of connection.

with our own students, many of whom have come from a widening participation background themselves. And I often think if you're a younger person and you see someone who you recognise and say, actually, they've done it, they've been successful, that really reinforces those pathways. And we have some fantastic graduation ceremonies where both Newcastle and Northumbria, we get the Jordanian people to come onto the campus and they have a graduation ceremony and they...

have that excitement and their families are involved. So just building that familiarity that the university is not this sort of strange place that they've never visited but making it feel much more familiar. One of the other things that we do is work in partnership with other organisations and as you know in the North East football is a big thing so we're working.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (09:23.822)

It's everything.

Jane Robinson (09:25.494)

Just a little bit. So we're working with the Newcastle United Football Foundation. So as part of the program...

the kids spend time at the Football Foundation doing STEM education, but also getting a little bit of that Newcastle United magic as well. So we find that that kind of approach works really well. And we're also so pleased that some of the big employers have come on board as well. And I know that's something that this is purpose is really focused on as well. So we're really thinking about what sort of experience are these kids

kids having from a very early age and giving those opportunities of seeing what is possible and hopefully creating those opportunities that's not just about coming to university or choosing to go to college but also how do you succeed in the longer term into really good jobs.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (10:23.918)

It's so important. And I remember as education secretary, I saw some research that said, if you already know you want to go to university when you're 10, you're six times more likely to actually get there. And I was definitely one of those children. And I always had a sense, I thought getting education, going to university was going to be this path, this next step for me

on education to something else that I would then by then have a sense of what I wanted to do, but I knew it was the next step. But as so many of your Into University Centre children, I literally didn't know anyone else who'd been to university. So there were quite a lot of, I would say, children in my class who were probably minded like me and they wanted to go and do that, but none of us really knew anyone

that had done it. And so I think to be able to demystify it so it feels accessible. But I think then that broader bit that universities do brilliantly and I think is incredibly undervalued, which is developing people. So it's much, so much more than a degree, isn't it? It's really a huge amount of personal development. I think being able to also drive some of that upstream. So not just aspirations, but also that personal development, that sense of thinking more broadly,

I think is hugely valuable. And as you say, we have lots of businesses and employers who are part of the Purpose Coalition. And I think we try to get them to develop that almost anchor institution mindset that for universities is really part and parcel now of how many of you think about your place in local communities. I think if we can get businesses thinking the same way, Jane, then hopefully they'll be ready and able and willing to become much more part of some of that work.

that I think higher education really drives right across the country, but certainly in places like the North East.

Jane Robinson (12:22.391)

Yeah.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (12:22.638)

So exciting times.

Jane Robinson (12:25.142)

Absolutely. And I suppose that sort of sense of collaboration, as you say, to sort of...

to create those opportunities for those young people is really about how we can come together. As universities, as I say, we work really, really closely with Northumbria University. We have a collaborative Newcastle Universities Agreement and the INTO University Centre is a really important part of that. I'm really pleased to say, this is hot off the press, that we've just agreed that we will open a second

centre in the North East as well. So the success is definitely growing but it is about that collaboration between the university, working with our partners in industry, working with local authorities and the new combined authority as well and obviously working very closely with those communities themselves.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (13:30.254)

And let's talk a little bit about that new mayoral role. So it will be, it's brand new obviously for the North East, but it potentially provides that leadership and that person that can really drive things. We've seen that, obviously I'm in London, we've seen it in Manchester and other parts of the country. Tell us a little bit from a university perspective and doing the work that's already there.

Jane Robinson (13:34.678)

Mmm.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (13:59.438)

How do you plan to work with that new mayor, whoever they are, and where do you see the opportunities?

Jane Robinson (14:06.134)

Yeah, so.

This week, we hope we'll have the results of that Mayoral Combined Authority election. And I think it really is a big deal for the region. As you say, there are other parts of the country where we've seen devolution really make big, big steps forward. And in the North East, the devolution deal is around £4.2 billion over the next 30 years. But I think what's really exciting is that it

does mark the opportunity to bring together different policy areas in a much more joined up way. And I guess in a way that sometimes is difficult at a national level. So we're really excited about that.

opportunity and all four universities across the North East Combined Authority area have been working very closely with the team on how we can maximize those opportunities. So, you know, if we think about that connection between the innovation that will shape the future economy, whether that's about

green technology, whether it's about health and care, whether it's about digital technologies, the areas where we know there are real opportunities to create good jobs. How do we support that? How do we support small businesses who are part of that supply chain to innovate, increase productivity? But then it's absolutely critical to connect that to education and skills.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (15:20.558)

Mm -hmm.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (15:47.214)

Mm.

Jane Robinson (15:47.766)

So how are we making sure that we are equipping the workforce of the future to take advantage of those jobs? And I do think that...

Rt Hon Justine Greening (15:54.606)

Mm -hmm.

Jane Robinson (15:58.39)

devolution represents a real opportunity in the North East where we have faced some significant economic and social challenges to say we can come together around this and connect those things of innovation, the future economy and the skills and education that are going to be necessary to make sure that local people can take advantage of those future jobs.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (16:28.27)

And I think it's really interesting when you look at that devolution landscape and in particular the role of Mayors because they really have galvanised, but in a more strategic way, some of that change that can happen in regions. And it really strikes me that I think one of the challenges for universities is that higher education has really forged ahead on social mobility. I think out of all the elements of our society, it's probably done as much as any other

set of institutions to drive social mobility. At the same time, we've seen mayors becoming much more strategic on skills and devolution on that agenda. And yet, you remain almost, I think, for higher education with that entire policy agenda very driven still by Whitehall. And I think it's a really interesting thought to sort of consider.

Let's say your widening access and participation plan was something that you didn't agree with the Office for Students. Instead, you actually agreed it with this new mayor and local businesses, where you'd get to and just in a sense, how much more joined up and a natural partner you'd be around some of those tables to align it. Because of course, universities do drive skills. And I think it's quite interesting to...

to consider where that devolution agenda might go for higher education.

Jane Robinson (17:52.438)

Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think...

The North East is one of the three areas that has trailblazer deals for devolution. So Greater Manchester and West Midlands and now the North East. So after a little bit of a slow start, we are hopefully catching up quite fast. But as part of that, we have been looking at how can we really make a difference and working with colleagues in the DfE but also looking at Department of Business and Trade as well.

well and saying look how can we model approaches where we were in partnership with national government but really responding to the opportunities within the region and I do think that that

collaboration that I was talking about earlier where we've got partners in the public sector, partners in industry and universities and colleges of course working together thinking about those opportunities over a long term period because one of the big challenges is always that sort of

Rt Hon Justine Greening (18:56.11)

No.

Jane Robinson (18:59.254)

short-termism sometimes that is driven inevitably by the political cycles. So I think we feel quite optimistic that this is a real opportunity for us to try new ways of making those things join together better.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (19:17.998)

It is really exciting and I think, you know, there's a body of evidence in a sense looking at what other mayors have done and regions that means in a sense that you can really hopefully draw on some best practice. But as you say, Jane, working from a base of a huge amount of work that's already ongoing and has really been ramping up on scale. And I think in terms of its nature getting ever more strategic as well.

which I think, for me, when many people think about levelling up and the quality of opportunity, that whole agenda is very much bound up now in the North East, isn't it? And so, to think where you might be able to go with it next, for me is something that's really exciting. And I think it's great for the region to be able to very much shape that agenda for a wider country as well. So.

Yeah, a Mayor probably long overdue, I guess, but not long to wait. Now, I guess I also wanted to talk about your career because certainly I think for many people, you know, they may think about lots of different careers, but probably I'm going to guess that one thing they often won't think about is a career in higher education. And yet it's such a shaping career, isn't it?

in many respects, but for so many people's lives. Before we sort of wrap up, Jane, tell us a little bit about your own journey and how you end up being a pro vice chancellor at Newcastle University.

Jane Robinson (20:55.414)

Yeah, well, I think I'm atypical in terms of pro vice chancellors in the sense that my career started in arts and heritage. So I began working quite a long time ago, but in working for the Arts Council and looking at that kind of, you know, the role of culture.

I then moved into local government and ended up becoming a chief executive of a local authority. But I guess I...

moving into higher education, I've been in both academic roles and what we call professional service roles. So I worked at Durham University as Chief Operating Officer and now as Pro Vice Chancellor at Newcastle. I think the really interesting thing about universities is, and the thing that really appeals to me, is that they are...

large organisations that are so diverse, there are so many different opportunities working in higher education. We work with different partners. So in my role, I work with everyone from local government to the NHS to industry to the community and voluntary sector. So I guess what I brought to this role was some of that experience of working in other sectors. And I do think that more and more universities now are really

Rt Hon Justine Greening (22:27.79)

Mm -hmm.

Jane Robinson (22:31.224)

thinking about their role in place and therefore the sorts of people.

that they're interested in employing are often people who have those sort of experiences. So even if you aren't someone who's done a degree and then carried on through academia, you can bring your experiences in into universities and they are great places to work. And I must admit, I just love being surrounded by so many of my colleagues who are leading experts in so many different areas. And of course, our

Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:03.47)

you

Jane Robinson (23:07.)

students who have so many ideas and are so much energy and bring so much vibrancy to the city. But as I was saying earlier, we're also big employers of a whole range of different roles. So everything from gardeners to cooks to world leading academics. So you name it, you can generally find a job within a university. But yeah, for me, it's been it's a fantastic role that gives me the

Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:29.55)

I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Jane Robinson (23:36.872)

opportunity to draw on my experience of working in other sectors but I hope to really help build those partnerships for Newcastle University that will ultimately be beneficial to those communities that we serve.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (23:50.862)

And it ends up being a bit of a sort of, I was going to say a closed loop, that's probably not quite the way I mean to express it, but it's this win -win, isn't it? It's a circular relationship. You're now ever more strategically developing those talent pipelines. That makes you more successful. Crucially, it makes local North East somewhat

regional businesses, but some of those national businesses that are based in the in the North East there. It encourages inward investment. You have a research agenda. I remember looking at your data science work that you're doing right in the, I mean, literally right in the centre of Newcastle, which is incredibly exciting. It just becomes this virtuous circle, doesn't it? That draws in the investment that then means more fantastic careers, a bigger talent pipeline. And I think that's really what we want to see.

higher education system right at the heart of driving, but in a sense you've got the heft and the scale to strategically do that in a way that really, perhaps other than a Mayor, it's hard to see anyone else quite being able to drive it in the way that a university like Newcastle does.

Jane Robinson (25:06.678)

Yeah, I mean, I do think that, you know, that sense of the virtuous circle that you described, the mutual benefit is absolutely at the heart of what we do. I think, you know, perhaps in the past, people may have said, you know, universities are...

sort of focused on educating 18 to 21 year olds and doing some interesting research. And that some of the community engagement is sort of nice to have.

But I think where we are as a university, and I think many universities in the sector, see that what we do in our place is absolutely benefiting our core mission of education and research and critically benefiting the places in which we operate. So the sense that there is a win -win.

around this I think is something that is much more widely recognised now and I hope that as a university we can continue to really push and champion that agenda as well.

Rt Hon Justine Greening (26:15.054)

And I'm sure you will. We should let you go. But Professor Jane Robinson, Pro VC at Newcastle for Engagement in Place, just been fantastic having you part of the podcast on leadership. So thanks very much for joining us today.

Jane Robinson (26:31.382)

Thanks very much, Justine.